The Gaming Den

Yeah, I'm definitely aware that STEM degrees are the way to go for actual employment, rather than a useless Liberal Arts degree or some shit.

I've read plenty on the education bubble, where a Master's is the new Bachelor's, etc... But since it was mentioned: what *would* an Associate's degree get me? And how much in the way of essay writing is required in STEM courses, generally? Writing has been a major weakpoint of mine all my life, which is a big problem.

K wrote: Sixth, as an older student you are going to shocked at the laziness and apathy of some of your fellow students and their terrible plans of getting a useless degree. Try not to let that be a model of behavior for yourself because those guys are going to be degree-holding dishwashers while you are going to be that well-employed guy who once had a dishwashing job.

PS. Young college girls are not going to want to fuck you. Just go into it knowing that.

Heh, indeed. I'm only 23 right now, but I assumed as much. And I'm already shocked and appalled at the work ethic of students, given I work with them on a uni campus.

Lago PARANOIA wrote: One other thing, esp. for math classes you should learn all of the basic formulas for calculating area/volume and especially trigonometric identities. It'll save you a lot of grief if you know every single one of them and how to calculate the value of a unit circle without referring to it. You should both brute-force memorize them and also learn how to derive them.

Yeah. Trig is what has stumped me in math. It has to be some sort of mental block or something, since basically everyone but me managed to get it in class. Did fine on algebra and stuff, though.


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On my 2nd idea, Fleming College in Ontario has two programs; Sustainable Building Construction and Sustainable Building Renovation, or something along those lines. I've seen videos of the course and they do types of alternative methods that you're really unlikely to learn on an average job site. It seems worth it to me, but it appears to take 2 years to learn both.

Grek wrote:I'd like to recomend geology as an easy field to make money in. A BS will essentially guarantee you a paid internship + company grants with an oil/mining/construction company if you're smart and then you use that to get your MS. In exchange, you work 5 years for your corporate sponser at ~50K a year and then go do whatever with your life. If you have the brains for chemistry/engineering, you have the brains for stratigraphy and geochemistry.

This is definitely tempting. I used to be a huge rockhound as a kid, like my grandfather. One of my uncles worked for mining company back in the day. They'd drop him in the wilderness with supplies and have him scan a grid for shit. I seem to recall hearing that he was rather well off financially.

Geologists are highly overpaid for what they do, since it's such an unpopular major. The unpopularity is largely due to the combination of hard science corsework, physical fitness requirements for field work and people requesting that you move to such wonderful and exotic locations as Afganistan, Rwanda or Siberia for a few years in order to do your job, so if you're not scared away by all that, there's lots of money to be made and lots of jobs open.

Meikle641 wrote:Yeah. Trig is what has stumped me in math. It has to be some sort of mental block or something, since basically everyone but me managed to get it in class. Did fine on algebra and stuff, though.

You are going to need a little bit of it. Mostly the unit circle, SOH-CAH-TOA, all of the trigometric ratios (like sin^2+cos^2=1, that one is HUGE for calculus), all of the half and double-angle identities, learning which trig function corresponds to what basic graph, what's the difference between the graphs of 2sin(x) and sin(2x). You're not going to need the sin and cosine multiplication/addition formulas yet but they will be helpful pretty soon.

There's no way you're doing any math/science program or any respectable technical major (like business or accounting unless you're doing a mickey-mouse track, but those are a waste of time) without calculus and unless you know your trigonometry and algebra cold derivative and especially integral calculus will be unnecessarily hard.

I can link you to some YouTube videos if you want a refresher, but basically you'll want to look up PatrickJMT and khanacademy. I prefer PatrickJMT personally but khanacademy goes a bit deeper than Pat does. When you get to Differential Equations (which all of the above programs use, sorry) which will probably be your 3rd semester or so I can link you to a few more websites that are a big help.

As far as EE goes, if you're getting into it to do programming you're wasting your time. Computer Science majors do more of that and way better; you're not going to learn anything much better than ASM, C, and maybe Python. If you want to do electrical engineering and actually get a decent salary for it you need to choose a tech area that involves hands-on design or operations, which means Power Systems, Embedded Systems (basically what translates computer programs to mechanical work), Computer Architecture or Digital Signal Processing.

Geology is where you want to go if you make bank though. If you want job security go biomedical engineering, the Labor Dept predicts that that job field will grow by 63% of what it is right now next decade. I like electrical engineering and while I was in the USN decided that I really liked power electronics (I just hated doing it for the Nav, fuck cleaning stations) but the other engineering majors pay better and have better job prospects except for maybe mechanical engineering.

It doesn't seem like Ontario has much of a selection for Geology at schools, maybe 4 or 5 total. So I'm thinking that I should maybe consider going overseas.


I know that schooling outside of North America is often a fraction of the cost, but the main problem is that I basically only speak English and what little Quebecois French I remember from school. So I assume this basically restricts me to the Commonwealth. Am I right?

And if I did go overseas, what countries/schools would you folks recommend?

Meikle641 wrote:Yeah, I'm definitely aware that STEM degrees are the way to go for actual employment, rather than a useless Liberal Arts degree or some shit.

I've read plenty on the education bubble, where a Master's is the new Bachelor's, etc... But since it was mentioned: what *would* an Associate's degree get me? And how much in the way of essay writing is required in STEM courses, generally? Writing has been a major weakpoint of mine all my life, which is a big problem.

An Associates will get you nearly as much as a minor. It's basic familiarity with some parts of a topic, but doesn't give you the solid grounding you need to figure out the hard stuff, and (like every degree) is utterly irrelevant to day-to-day work.

Also, bone up on your writing. I'm an engineer, I get paid for being able to do crazy modeling and statistics. 90% of my job is still reading standards, policies, and reports, then writing about them persuasively.

Also, statistics. Lago recommended a second language, and he's not wrong, but statistics is more valuable than you would believe.

Neeeek wrote:Here, in California, the community colleges all have the exact same transfer policy: The public universities are required by law to accept essentially everyone with a certain GPA and classes completed.

That's not exactly true. The UC system as a whole has to accept you, but you are not guaranteed a spot at one of the selective ones.

Neeeek wrote: As far as teaching quality goes, I'd avoid research universities, as the professors aren't there to teach, they are there to do research. I once had a professor who quit her previous job for being reprimanded for letting her teaching get in the way of her research.

It really depends. If you plan to get in, get a degree, and get out, you're right. If you want to actually have contacts in your field, or to be on the leading edge of some aspect of it, research is definitely the way to go. You just have to get involved in it. (Not real hard. Sit outside your favorite professor's office until he has some spare time, then ask if he has anything you can do. Lather, rinse, and repeat.)

Grek wrote:Geologists are highly overpaid for what they do, since it's such an unpopular major. The unpopularity is largely due to the combination of hard science corsework, physical fitness requirements for field work and people requesting that you move to such wonderful and exotic locations as Afganistan, Rwanda or Siberia for a few years in order to do your job, so if you're not scared away by all that, there's lots of money to be made and lots of jobs open.

That actually sounds pretty awesome. If I had a chance to start over, I'd try Gology (Wait, does Geology require much math? Math and Literature is why my GPA is 2.6 despite getting A's and B's in every science class I've ever been in).

I don't think I'd use that knowledge, but I gotta say that sounds like something I would have loved.

Unfortunately, Count, every math/science/accounting/non-mickey mouse business major requires you to know at least up to differential equations. Which requires calculus and trigonometry. Of course they're not all built equally. Mechanical, aerospace, and electrical engineers for instance directly use differential equations just for lower-division stuff and I'd be surprised if geology/chemical/petroleum engineers didn't. Regardless I do know that geology majors do topology, linear algebra, and real analysis so there's no getting out of it.

There's really no such thing as a profitable major without doing math unless you're completely fucking shit-hot that you can compete for the tiny selection of slots. Now notice how I didn't say respectable. There are in my opinion majors that make you work as hard or even harder than math/science/engineering ones--for example, if you do history above the undergraduate level they will work you like you are the only surviving dog in the Iditarod.

But sadly while they have academic respect they're not viewed as money-makers. Blame anti-intellectualism for this.

While I'm on my soapbox, I'd also like to say that it's a fucken shame that the U.S. bureaucracy above the middle-management level is mostly stocked with businessmen and lawyers (no offense to the lawyers) rather than political scientists and sociologists. Of course in the U.S. working for the government is viewed with little to no respect in the first place--which of course leads to people being underqualified for their positions and creates the disrespect in the zeroth place--but that's another story.

Side note:
One of my friends went to business school, and every time there was a math model or a simulation where you had to fiddle inputs for the best outputs or similar, he kicked the ass of everyone else in the class. When asked about the secret of his success, his actual response was: "You've never played Champions, have you?"

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:Wait, does Geology require much math?

Undergrad requirements at my university were 12 hours of calculus, 12 hours of general chemistry, 8 hours of inorganic chemistry, 12 hours of physics and 8 hours of geophyics plus the actual geology courses, which were not math heavy at all.

If your goal is purely to make money and you have decent spatial sense (able to manipulate multiple 3D objects in your head), then you should seriously look into medical dosimetry.

The job involves sitting in front of a computer and designing radiation treatment plans for cancer patients. Over and over and over again. The most math you will ever need to know is trig and exponential decay. In return, you rake in relatively large amounts of cash (starting 60k-80k), with the potential to break six figures within five years. And cancer is unlikely to disappear overnight, so job security is pretty good.

I got into the field from a conventional physics background, but they're tightening up the certification paths; by the time you get your BA/BS, there will be an additional requirement of a 12 month accredited degree program. This means that it's something you have to start planning in tandem with deciding on a college and a major.

I have to add that the job is incredibly, incredibly boring, which is why I'm doing something else now.

If you're still interested in what major to take for financial gain:

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/11/where-money

Don't be fooled by the 'petroleum' part of petroleum engineering. If we reach peak oil or something, you can become a geologist with the same skill set.

Computer Science is misleading slightly. It depends on what job you're going for exactly. If you can wheedle a job where you work on a small team for a legacy system or something that's going to stay around for awhile (for example, the IT system of a power plant) you can make bank. If you're a cubicle drone or a game programmer or whatever you probably won't make as much cash.

So, I've been looking at Memorial University since it offers Geology and has various mining and oil-related courses. Of course, it's apparent I need to take a refresher in math in order to pass the entrance exam (much less coursework). A big plus is that the cost for housing and tuition, etc comes to around 15k a year. Easily affordable with an okay job.

On the other hand, taking courses on sustainable building stuff and renewable energy sounds awesome, since I love that shit. But, the Canadian gov is cutting much of the subsidies and rebates, which will hurt the market for such things (at least in regards to solar and wind).

Or, just going back to school to upgrade my highschool education so I can be a plumber. Last time I went for trade work they wouldn't even look at my resume since I lacked grade 12 math, or, in the case of Plumbing, grade 12 physics.

I'd totally start a business for sustainable building contruction and renovation if I thought I could make a living off of it.

Meikle641 wrote:So, I've been looking at Memorial University since it offers Geology and has various mining and oil-related courses. Of course, it's apparent I need to take a refresher in math in order to pass the entrance exam (much less coursework). A big plus is that the cost for housing and tuition, etc comes to around 15k a year. Easily affordable with an okay job.

On the other hand, taking courses on sustainable building stuff and renewable energy sounds awesome, since I love that shit. But, the Canadian gov is cutting much of the subsidies and rebates, which will hurt the market for such things (at least in regards to solar and wind).

Or, just going back to school to upgrade my highschool education so I can be a plumber. Last time I went for trade work they wouldn't even look at my resume since I lacked grade 12 math, or, in the case of Plumbing, grade 12 physics.

I'd totally start a business for sustainable building contruction and renovation if I thought I could make a living off of it.

Take a look at European schools. Countries like Germany and Finland have entire programs taught in English and in many cases FREE even to foreign students. They also don't typically take kindly to shitty for profits schools so the level of education tends to pretty good.